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April 07, 2009

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Nicholas Bentivoglio

Hi Kathleen,

Another excellent post from a truly BRILLIANT real estate attorney!! I read this post in conjunction with all the links that you put in there and I undoubtedly have a much better grasp of seasoning and how it relates to the Land Trust. May I forward it to everyone I know??

When are you going to do another webinar????? or lecture???? I want to be there!!!!

I learn more from you every time I deal with you then from any investing mentor!!!!! :)

Katrina

What about a transfer from an individual to a LTD? Does that reset the clock?

Kathleen Scanlon

Under the above analysis, the date of a no-consideration transfer from a homeowner to an entity, be it a trust, corp, llc etc, where the homeowner owns the entity itself and maintains control and possession of the subject property is not a Date of Acquisition for the purposes of this Seasoning test.

jimi

Very informative, thanks!

jimi

David Safeer

Kathleen-

Thank you for this post. I just started following you. I run a mortgage company, property management company, and hold single family homes. I also sponsor a real estate investment club.

Question: Have you used land trusts to help investors control properties and then sell them to an FHA buyer in under 90 days using the process you describe?

I found this so compelling that I referenced it in my blog and linked to you.

Thanks again.
www.cleardaycap.blogspot.com

Bill McKee

The problem I've run into lately, in ORegon, is that the title company won't insure seller's title until it is taken out of the land trust (unless the trust is a statutory "Business Trust" .. and that is a whole nuther issue...). So even though seasoning may not be an issue, the title companies in Oregon are of the opinion that they will not take the "risk" of insuring property that was transferred to a trustee under a land trust (especially if that transfer was done just months or less before the subject sale). I"ve talked with the legal dept of many of the major title companies and they all give me the same answers. Bill Gatten talked with them, too. No luck. They all drink the same kool-aid!

Anyway, if you ever come across a title company willing to insure title for a transaction in Oregon as you describe above, let me know!

Kevin

I need a defintion of what is a, "sellers date of acquisition" when the property is bought at foreclosure auction. Is the, "sellers date of acquisition" the day the property is bought at auction? Or is, "sellers date of acquisition" when the deed is recorded by the county?
Thanks

Kathleen Scanlon

Kevin, in response to your question, since recording the document in the County Clerk's office merely provides record notice of the transfer and a Deed is viable the moment it is executed and delivered to purchaser, the "Date of Acquisition" is the date of the actual purchase - the date on the Deed and/or HUD-1 Settlement Statement.

Hope that helps!

Kathleen A. Scanlon, Esq.

Kevin

Kathleen,
Thanks!!! That's what I thought, but my real estate agent said the ninety days starts when the deed is recorded. I have a general contractors licence and try to do my best work. I not only improve the house and have it move in ready (which some people are looking for) but influence neighbors to do work in and around there places. I just don't think the ninety day seasoning is fair or good for the economy. There are bad apples in every service type of industry. We shouldn't all be punished for what a few unethical people do.
Thanks again for your help,
Kevin

Kathleen Scanlon

Kevin,

Your real estate agent is DEAD WRONG! Look at the language of the HUD Mortgagee Letter.

This is the misinformation passed on by real estate industry members who try to play lawyer. Don't believe the hype!

Latosha Hunt

Kathleen,
Just needed a t little clarity. If an investor purchases an REO and renovates it, put purchases it in the name of a land trust, does he still have to wait 90days for the FHA rule?

Robert P. Sabourin II

Kathleen

I am a real estate attorney in Michigan specializing in short sale and foreclosure work. It is nice to run into a kindred spirit. We are currently running into the same issues with underwriters here as Bill in Oregon. The title underwriters simply won't take the risk. This all came down late last week so information is crucial right now. I have held the same line of thinking as you based on the regs. for several years. My question now is, what source do I cite when I tell these folks that a transfer to a trust does not constitute a re-sale under 24 CFR 203.37a. They want more than just the word of an attorney, it seems, and I have been through the CFR from front to back and every bulletin I can find only to come up empty handed thus far. Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

Jason Ochs

What about seasoning when the property goes from an LLC back to an individual? The borrower has owned the home since 01/03/2007. He then transferred the home into an LLC, of which he is the sole member (100% ownership). On 01/27/2009 we placed the home (filed deed) back into his name for $0 consideration.

I am working with the Philadelphia HOC now, and they are telling me I must wait 12 months for a cash out refinance.

The loan scenario is 85% cash out, debt consolidation, state of Ohio.

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